Comments on: Mac Performance: From the G3 to the Xeon http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/ No jocks. No jerks. Just fun with geeks. Wed, 14 Oct 2009 03:33:36 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: » Looking Back At Mac Hardware Performance MaisonBisson.com http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-95059 » Looking Back At Mac Hardware Performance MaisonBisson.com Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:26:32 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-95059 <p>[...] Poole’s 2006 blog post confirmed what I was feeling: G4s are way slower than I realized at the time. Related:Macintosh Antivirus SoftwareDear SteveMac Wireless Card CompatibilityApple Releases [...]</p> [...] Poole’s 2006 blog post confirmed what I was feeling: G4s are way slower than I realized at the time. Related:Macintosh Antivirus SoftwareDear SteveMac Wireless Card CompatibilityApple Releases [...]

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By: Krasnol http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-6937 Krasnol Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:30:47 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-6937 <p>In many cases, the performance leap in the new Core Duos is the fact that there are two chips instead of one, and that these tow chips are able to offload work on one another, giving an additional speed boost.</p> <p>The G4 is indeed an fossil in terms of age and architecture, however, it is not as obsolete as it seems. </p> <p>Real world example. I am running off a Powerbook G4, 1.5GHz. I recently bought my girlfriend a Intel Mini, Core Solo, 1.5GHz.</p> <p>All in all, same clock, and the Mini has a larger L2 cache and FSB. In some tests, the Core Solo outdid the G4 by quite a margin, (i.e Cinebench) however, I decided to try some video encoding (which I do a lot of) using quicktime pro, as it is allegedly optimised and running native on both machines. The results surprised me to say the least. In 5 tests that I ran, ranging from convert to iPod, to specific codec setups, the Powerbook won 3 of the 5 speedtests! All in all, after average all the times out, the Powerbook came out on top, only by 5%, which is not much, but it surprised me as I expected much better performance from a much newer architecture.</p> <p>In an interesting side note, when I used CHUD tools to shut down a processor on my friends Dual G5, the single processor was significantly slower in Cinebench than when 2 processors are active, but Cinebench is only rendering in single processor mode.</p> <p>I am by no means a genius when it comes to processor architectures and the like, however, it seems the G4 still has some uses, and I believe a lot of the significant speed increases that the new Core Duos have are because they are dual processors, use newer system architecture and faster memory and hard disks (SATA vs IDE, not the RPM speed, but the data transfer speed)</p> <p>In any case, after those tests, my Powerbook G4 does not look as slow as some tests may suggest. :)</p> In many cases, the performance leap in the new Core Duos is the fact that there are two chips instead of one, and that these tow chips are able to offload work on one another, giving an additional speed boost.

The G4 is indeed an fossil in terms of age and architecture, however, it is not as obsolete as it seems.

Real world example. I am running off a Powerbook G4, 1.5GHz. I recently bought my girlfriend a Intel Mini, Core Solo, 1.5GHz.

All in all, same clock, and the Mini has a larger L2 cache and FSB.
In some tests, the Core Solo outdid the G4 by quite a margin, (i.e Cinebench) however, I decided to try some video encoding (which I do a lot of) using quicktime pro, as it is allegedly optimised and running native on both machines.
The results surprised me to say the least.
In 5 tests that I ran, ranging from convert to iPod, to specific codec setups, the Powerbook won 3 of the 5 speedtests! All in all, after average all the times out, the Powerbook came out on top, only by 5%, which is not much, but it surprised me as I expected much better performance from a much newer architecture.

In an interesting side note, when I used CHUD tools to shut down a processor on my friends Dual G5, the single processor was significantly slower in Cinebench than when 2 processors are active, but Cinebench is only rendering in single processor mode.

I am by no means a genius when it comes to processor architectures and the like, however, it seems the G4 still has some uses, and I believe a lot of the significant speed increases that the new Core Duos have are because they are dual processors, use newer system architecture and faster memory and hard disks (SATA vs IDE, not the RPM speed, but the data transfer speed)

In any case, after those tests, my Powerbook G4 does not look as slow as some tests may suggest. :)

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By: Trevor’s Bike Shed » Blog Archive » My new computer: smokin’ fast http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-4493 Trevor’s Bike Shed » Blog Archive » My new computer: smokin’ fast Wed, 11 Oct 2006 05:27:34 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-4493 <p>[...] Of course, the true measure of a computer’s speed is BZFlag. My new MacBook Pro is so fast I can pump up all the detail settings to the max, and the game still runs smoothly. That was impossible on my old PowerBook. In fact, I didn’t quite realize how much I was suffering with my PowerBook’s aging G4 processor until I saw a Geek Patrol article that chronicled Mac performance through the years. Their graph clearly shows the huge jump in speed that Apple is getting by moving their laptops to Intel processors, not to mention how severely the G4 has stagnated in recent years. But speed isn’t the only thing I’m getting with my new MacBook Pro. It includes some nice bonus features, too: [...]</p> [...] Of course, the true measure of a computer’s speed is BZFlag. My new MacBook Pro is so fast I can pump up all the detail settings to the max, and the game still runs smoothly. That was impossible on my old PowerBook. In fact, I didn’t quite realize how much I was suffering with my PowerBook’s aging G4 processor until I saw a Geek Patrol article that chronicled Mac performance through the years. Their graph clearly shows the huge jump in speed that Apple is getting by moving their laptops to Intel processors, not to mention how severely the G4 has stagnated in recent years. But speed isn’t the only thing I’m getting with my new MacBook Pro. It includes some nice bonus features, too: [...]

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By: Charles http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3335 Charles Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:48:40 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3335 <p>To be completely informative, this should have the dates of the releases as well. Plot the performance on one axis, time on the other; the product will have its name on the bar.</p> <p>That would really tell us how things developed. As it stands, this distorts and doesn't show where there was a lack of progress. For example the G4 Powerbook languished for ages. But that's not obvious from the graphs - or at least not as obvious as it should be.</p> <p>Shouldn't be hard to find a site that'll do this. You could then even plot different products in different colours - four or five should do it.</p> To be completely informative, this should have the dates of the releases as well. Plot the performance on one axis, time on the other; the product will have its name on the bar.

That would really tell us how things developed. As it stands, this distorts and doesn’t show where there was a lack of progress. For example the G4 Powerbook languished for ages. But that’s not obvious from the graphs – or at least not as obvious as it should be.

Shouldn’t be hard to find a site that’ll do this. You could then even plot different products in different colours – four or five should do it.

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By: Jon H http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3327 Jon H Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:01:55 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3327 <p>"Doesn’t look very stagnant to me, even before that there have been various other Freescale processors than were better than what Apple were using at the time. It’s not Freescales fault if Apple don’t use their products."</p> <p>It's Freescale's fault if they can't make enough of the CPUs, and if they don't improve them enough, fast enough, to keep up with Intel.</p> <p>Apple was not Freescale's big customer. Most of their chips are sold for embedded electronics, in things like routers and automobiles. These applications have requirements very, very different from desktop PCs. And they don't advance at the same pace as desktop PCs.</p> <p>I don't see why Apple would bother going with unproven startups. Maybe they have a chip that looks good today, but that may be all they have. They may hit a wall very quickly, as has happened before to startups promising faster PPC chips. </p> <p>Another risk is that these startups may not be able to reliably produce chips in sufficient quantities. Even a comparable giant like AMD might have trouble providing enough CPUs for Apple.</p> <p>The advantage of going with Intel is that Apple won't be Intel's only desktop computer customer. It won't just be Apple asking Intel for faster CPUs, it'll be all the myriad PC makers, as well as Microsoft. Freescale and IBM probably thought they could safely string Apple along while failing to deliver on promised performance, because (they thought) Apple needed them more than they needed Apple.</p> “Doesn’t look very stagnant to me, even before that there have been various other Freescale processors than were better than what Apple were using at the time. It’s not Freescales fault if Apple don’t use their products.”

It’s Freescale’s fault if they can’t make enough of the CPUs, and if they don’t improve them enough, fast enough, to keep up with Intel.

Apple was not Freescale’s big customer. Most of their chips are sold for embedded electronics, in things like routers and automobiles. These applications have requirements very, very different from desktop PCs. And they don’t advance at the same pace as desktop PCs.

I don’t see why Apple would bother going with unproven startups. Maybe they have a chip that looks good today, but that may be all they have. They may hit a wall very quickly, as has happened before to startups promising faster PPC chips.

Another risk is that these startups may not be able to reliably produce chips in sufficient quantities. Even a comparable giant like AMD might have trouble providing enough CPUs for Apple.

The advantage of going with Intel is that Apple won’t be Intel’s only desktop computer customer. It won’t just be Apple asking Intel for faster CPUs, it’ll be all the myriad PC makers, as well as Microsoft. Freescale and IBM probably thought they could safely string Apple along while failing to deliver on promised performance, because (they thought) Apple needed them more than they needed Apple.

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By: John http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3297 John Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:58:00 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3297 <p>Ken,</p> <p>Yes, the units are comparable between graphs.</p> Ken,

Yes, the units are comparable between graphs.

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By: Ken http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3294 Ken Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:04:43 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3294 <p>Are the units comparable between graphs?</p> Are the units comparable between graphs?

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By: jesse http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3291 jesse Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:30:26 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3291 <p>"Doesn’t look very stagnant to me, even before that there have been various other Freescale processors than were better than what Apple were using at the time. It’s not Freescales fault if Apple don’t use their products."</p> <p>Those other freescale processors can't meet the needs of apple. As it was apple had a hard time with getting enough processors for their computer demand. Yes, there are 2ghz G4 chips, but not enough are manufactured which is why you only see them in G4 upgrades. Also who would you go with...a new powerpc start up company or intel who has an amazing roadmap? I praise apple for having the balls to change to intel....the G4 is too old and the G5 is waaaaaaay too hot.</p> “Doesn’t look very stagnant to me, even before that there have been various other Freescale processors than were better than what Apple were using at the time. It’s not Freescales fault if Apple don’t use their products.”

Those other freescale processors can’t meet the needs of apple. As it was apple had a hard time with getting enough processors for their computer demand. Yes, there are 2ghz G4 chips, but not enough are manufactured which is why you only see them in G4 upgrades. Also who would you go with…a new powerpc start up company or intel who has an amazing roadmap? I praise apple for having the balls to change to intel….the G4 is too old and the G5 is waaaaaaay too hot.

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By: macbones http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3249 macbones Fri, 01 Sep 2006 03:06:11 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3249 <p>I tend to try & wait for an order of magnitude performance change- that way the new box really blows me away. I just got the Macbook to replace our 300mhtz iBook- what a stunner leap that was! </p> <p>I'll try to get another 2 years out of our MDD 867, which is actually pretty snappy for our needs- I think they'll be about 10X faster then. . . Although by the looks of the graph, maybe that'l happen this coming spring. If you can get 6 or 7 years out of a machine, it kind of justifies the extra cost of the pro box over the consumer models.</p> I tend to try & wait for an order of magnitude performance change- that way the new box really blows me away. I just got the Macbook to replace our 300mhtz iBook- what a stunner leap that was!

I’ll try to get another 2 years out of our MDD 867, which is actually pretty snappy for our needs- I think they’ll be about 10X faster then. . . Although by the looks of the graph, maybe that’l happen this coming spring. If you can get 6 or 7 years out of a machine, it kind of justifies the extra cost of the pro box over the consumer models.

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By: TW http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/08/mac-performance-from-the-g3-to-the-xeon/comment-page-1/#comment-3248 TW Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:00:54 +0000 http://www.geekpatrol.ca/blog/138/#comment-3248 <p>What's interesting is why the 15" PowerBook edges out the 17" PowerBook (G4) almost all the time in speed. I thought they were the same speeds all those times? </p> <p>I guess I love my 15" PB just that much better now. Seems to move along. Just think what the MacBook Pros will be like in a couple years!</p> What’s interesting is why the 15″ PowerBook edges out the 17″ PowerBook (G4) almost all the time in speed. I thought they were the same speeds all those times?

I guess I love my 15″ PB just that much better now. Seems to move along. Just think what the MacBook Pros will be like in a couple years!

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